Oil pan removal

[tommyhawk13]

(Cross posted on the PCS board)

This is what I have:
1973 Cadillac S&S Victoria
New rubber valve cover gaskets - the top of the motor is dry.
The bottom of the oil pan is soaked with oil, especially the rear.
The exhaust, starter, radiator shroud, motor mount bolts, flywheel cover, and all the pan bolts
are off.

The motor is jacked up so high it broke the alternator wire, and I still can't get the pan out. The Chilton's manual made it sound much easier than what I've done, am I missing something?
Do I need to do sme ritual dance and chant?

The biggest hold up is the steering linkage, but I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have to pull that off.

[Dale]

Hi Tommyhawk, its been forever since I tore my engine down, but I remember a lip on the front cover that coincided with the pan and front seal gaskets. I looked at all the info I had around and couldnt find anything better to tell you. I have an Eldo shop manual, so I'm pretty sure it wouldnt jive with your rwd car, but it said the idler arm supports and pitman arm needed swung out of the way. But, for a rwd I have no clue if that would apply. If I find any better info I will post it. I hope you get it figured out though. Dale

[fleetwood472]

Hey tommyhawk13,

I have had that same problem before the oil pan was stuck to the motor and all of the bolts were out I just couldnt get it loose. The best way to do it without messing up the pan is to take a putty knife and tap it inbetween the pan and the block do it all the way around the engine and the pan should come right off. Good luck let us know when you get it off.
- Justin

[KadillacKid]

Is the pan off the engine?? or is it a problem getting it out from under the car?? I did one on a 75 CDV and removed everything you have and the steering linkage drag link so it could be swung to one side,it was tight, but with a bar it came out......if I remember correctly, I even had to remove the sway bar brackets and push that to the front.....or if it won,t budge off the engine , the putty knife as Fleetwood 472 mentions works well ....Good Luck!!

[tommyhawk13]

Is the pan off the engine?? or is it a problem getting it out from under the car?? I did one on a 75 CDV and removed everything you have and the steering linkage drag link so it could be swung to one side,it was tight, but with a bar it came out......if I remember correctly, I even had to remove the sway bar brackets and push that to the front.....or if it won,t budge off the engine , the putty knife as Fleetwood 472 mentions works well ....Good Luck!!

That's what I thought, the steering linkage. Do I need a ball joint tool?
The pan is loose with enough room to change the gasket, but I want to get the rear main seal out & replace it since It only takes a little more effort.

[STDog]

That's what I thought, the steering linkage. Do I need a ball joint tool?

No, the ball joints can stay.

Normally, you need to remover the starter. Then drop the Y-pipe from the manifolds so the trans cover (flex plate and torque convertor dust cover) will come off.
Then drop the steering linkage. I usually take it loose at the arm from the steering gear, and the controll arm (I find the 2 bolts that mount it to the frame easiest).

Remove the oil pan bolts and raise the frame. This get the engine up away from the steering linkage. You don't need to loosen motor mounts. You won't break wires either. Just rise the from until the shocks/springs top out (and the wheels start to lift).

Then the back of the pan will fit under the flex plate (and above the steering link) far enough to clear the cross member and oil pickup. Then come forward to get the pan out.

You could also remove the linkage at the tie-rod ends, and take it out completely, but it's not required.

BTW, All of this was described in the shop manual for my '70 Deville. I expect the GM shop manual for '73 has the same description. Chilton's is OK, but the GM manual is much better.

Oh, which Chilton's do you have? The thick, multi-make book, or the small Cadillac RWD book? I think the small one sucks. Wasted my money on it.
This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chiltons-Auto-Repair-Manual-1969-1976-American-Cars_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6762QQitemZ7992179 654QQrdZ1) is the OK one.

[STDog]

Do I need a ball joint tool?
Miss read that. :oops:

No, just a tie rod end seperator. A good mallet or gear puller will also work.

[Stoked_70cadillac]

I started thinking about everything you have gone through just to get this far. As i do recall, it would have been alot easier to just unbolt the transmission and pull the block out of the car. at least this way you can put it on the stand, have a way easier time of scraping the old gasket material off the block, as well as take a peek at the bottom end for any tell tale signs of future repairs that may be needed.......

just a thought

[Terrible One]

I agree. I'd say, with no shop manual and no prior experience on this car, we pulled my engine out in about 2 hours.

[STDog]

I agree. I'd say, with no shop manual and no prior experience on this car, we pulled my engine out in about 2 hours.

Depends on your shop area. If you have a air conditioned shop great. Even a good cover'd slab would be reasonably fast. But if you on hard packed dirt with a hoist that won't roll?

Sitting on rams, it took me (alone, no help) about 6 hours to get everything loose. Tha's not counting the tim to put up tools each day, orth the breaks to cool off since it was 90* + outside and verry little shade. I had help pulling it out, but it took 2 hours once everything was loose sinc the hoist wouldn't roll.

I can drop the oil pan in about an hour, depending on how hard the exhust is to get loose.

[Terrible One]

We were in my grandparents open carport. I had a helper though...

[Morella]

I promised myself that I would never pull an oil pan out with the engine in the car, but, sometimes there is another car in the garage, so I built this.

http://www.americansoapbox.org/mrcrane/extension.jpg

Easy to build from an engine hoist, and parts from Harbor Freight. I've since added electric drive motors, so it's easier to move around on rough terrain. The boom extension is removable for pulling engines. The only bad thing is that you have to jack up the car pretty high to get it underneath.

Pulling an oil pan with the engine in the car is NASTY work. I agree with those who say to pull the engine. You can put down a piece of plywood to drive your hoist onto, if it's not on pavement.

-denise

[STDog]

If only a piece opf ply-wood helped.

I'm really glad you guys have access to a shop and good tools. Me, I borrowed the hoist and engine stand. The stand barely made it through. I had to cur holes to match the cady block, and enlarge the holes for the pins. When I got the engine off, it was leaning down at a 30*+ angle and I found a crak int the mount's welds.

The hoist is even worse. The bearing in the swivel casters are shot, so the wheels bind. We the weight of the engine ion it we had to use a metal pole to slide the hoist.

I still don't see the fuss about pulling the pan in the car. If you just need to change the rear seal. I did this when I change the main and rod bearings (had the wrong size). Pulling the engine mead removing a lot more stuff and draining the coolant, talk about messy.

To pull the pan I remover: 4 nuts holding the Y pipe to the exhaus manufold, 4 bolt holding the dust cover to the trany, 2 bolts holding the starter, 2 bolts holding the control arm to the frame, and the steering arm at the center link (it think thats the right name), and 20 bolt from the pan.

That's 2 bolts and the steering arm that aren't needed to get the engine out. But I haven't drainge the coolant, tought the fuel lines, fan, power steering, carb, or any electrical except at the battery.

Maybe on a different car it worse, but not the 472 in a RWD Cadillac. Never tried the mid-sump pans in the late 70's, just the front-sump pans. Maybe mid 70's changed it. but 68 - 72 for sure it easier than pulling the engine.

[tommyhawk13]

I managed to drag my hoist out, so the motor is up real high.
The steering linkage is on the floor now.
2 bolts hold the idle linkage on the passenger side, easy.
I used a puller on the ball joint at the end of the pitman arm. It took a while to get it to line up right (probably a little too big), but after a few hundred turns it came loose real easy.
With the linkage lowered, the motor higher, the pan came out.

[STDog]

I managed to drag my hoist out, so the motor is up real high.
The steering linkage is on the floor now.
2 bolts hold the idle linkage on the passenger side, easy.
I used a puller on the ball joint at the end of the pitman arm. It took a while to get it to line up right (probably a little too big), but after a few hundred turns it came loose real easy.
With the linkage lowered, the motor higher, the pan came out.

Did you loosen the motor mounts? You shouldn't have needed too.
A full sized floor jack usually will lift the frame enough to cleat the steering linkage.

I jack the frame just rear of the front fender. This works when the front wheels are on ramps.

[Gorf]

We got to a point in the engine, where we flipped a coin... take the engine out or take the steering linkage apart.

hmmm....

http://www.whootis.com/albums/hearse/DSCN1351.sized.jpg