Oil Pressure Problems - Cont. From Old Forum

[cutlasschic500]

Alright... I still need to get this problem solved, I still have questions.

:lol: I gotta say I love this Forum Set up... and my other hobbies use this too... it's great, and organized and easy to read.

:roll: To keep you guys up to day on my previous posts, on the other board I am going to post the Previous posts here, so it can continue. I know it's lot to read, but if you can help I will be SO GREATFUL.

Thanks Guys!

:arrow: :arrow:


Posted by Christina on May 03, 2005 at 11:33:21:

I've finally got the 500 running. Still needs a little tuning, but overall I'm not hearing any major knocks.

I've already broken the motor in... there are some former posts probably back around septemberish. I bought the pump Al sells put that on... waited a couple of months to put on a Remote oil filter setup.
With that done... I started the motor the other day.

Oh, btw I'm running 10-40 with a quart of mystery oil (cause the engine sat since sept with no oil in it)

When starting cold 60lbs... drops down to about 10 at an idle of 900rpm when warm.

When cruising at around 2000 rpm the oil pressure raises to a lil over 20psi.

When stepping on the gas bringin it up to about 3000rpm (which I'm still cautious about) it'll stay at 25-30, get off the gas the pressured abruptly raises to about 45psi then settles back down around 20psi.

I have a mechanical oil guage... not sure if that matters at all... and the guage has seen it's day.

Do you guys have any suggestions on raising the oil pressure. From what I hear, it's acceptable... but not as high as I'm used to seeing it and comfortable with before the rebuild.

Thicker oil maybe?

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In Reply to: Oil Pressure posted by Christina on May 03, 2005 at 11:33:21:

Christina.........my stock 500 idles at 40 to 45 psi hot in gear. Runs down the streets and highways at 58 psi. Cold idle is at 50 to 55 psi. Max pressure appears to about 63 psi. Thats when the relief valve opens. I'm using a stock 425 oil pump that was pulled at the wrecking yard and installed on the 500 to give more filter clearence. It has always had good oil pressure like this. Your pressure seems a little to low to me.

Regards Mel


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In Reply to: Re: Oil Pressure posted by Mel on May 03, 2005 at 22:39:16:
I'm wondering if it's doing it because of the remote filter set up. I just bought this pump new from Al. I see it as a waste to take it off and buy another pump.

My oil's pretty thin at this point, I've only driven it three times since the break in. There's still a lot of silver in the oil when I check it. I'm going to do my day 3 oil change in the next day or so. (Now that I have the car home I don't have a garage) It seems that this 10-40 is breaking down real quick.

I'm not getting any engine knocks

Also, and I'm not sure this would be a problem. I put in a new dipstick, since it was for a chevy I've had to cut it down to match the old one that was in the block. The old one was actually 2 pieces held together with a hose so it would clear the headers (that's the way the car came when I bought it) I've put 7qts of oil in it and a quart of Marvel Mystry Oil. Total 8 quarts. It just bearly reads on the dipstick. I don't know how much oil this motor holds stock. So I find it almost impossible to figure out how much oil it takes with the remote filter and a customized oil pan.

It's a rear sump eldo oil pan with a notch cut out to clear the crossmember under the motor (again.. that's the way it was when I bought it)

There's 2ft of line to the filter... and 2ft returning to the pump.

More Suggestions Please

Thank you thank you...

I've been worrying about this motor for 2 yrs too long... I'd just like to drive.


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In Reply to: Need More Oil Pressure Help! posted by Christina on May 04, 2005 at 14:26:04:

Oil cap for an eldo motor is 5 qt's, 6 if you change the filter. According to the Cad motor manual I have, 1970 Cadillac manual, they have 10 psi at idle and 30 to 40 psi at 30 mph. First I think you should get the right stick and tube from Al, second replace the oil pressure gauge with a new one. Your remote oil filter set up shouldn't take more than 1/2 a qt to work. To much oil in the crank case can cause all kinds of problems.
You mentioned that the oil presure goes up when you let of the gas, when the set the oil pick up tube did they check the cleance from the screen to the pan? It should be 1/4 to 3/8 inch. If it's to close the pump could be cavitating.
I would change the gauge, put 5.5 qt oil in the crank case, and fix the dip stick before you take anything apart.
Good luck


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In Reply to: Need More Oil Pressure Help! posted by Christina on May 04, 2005 at 14:26:04:
The oil level in the pan won't make any difference as long as it's substantially above the pickup screen. The remote filter shouldn't be a problem either.

Excessive main bearing clearances can cause oil pressure loss without knock. I've learned to plastigage them, probably because I'm so bad with measuring tools that I can't imagine how the machine shop could possibly use them correctly when they do my crankshaft.

However, before you take ANYTHING apart, you need to get some oil pressure readings with a precision gauge. You can use one made for automotive use, or get a gauge and fittings to hook one up at a hardware store...it's a 1/4 pipe thread.

-densie

[cutlasschic500]

I did plastigage the main bearing when I put them in. I did it exactly to what an old GM Caddy book said to for the crank that I have.

I didn't check the clearance of the pick up tube, but considering I didn't put in a new tube since I had the lower end rebuild about 8 months prior. I made sure it was clean, the screen was clean, and nothing got changed there, I don't think that might be a problem.

Well... looks like I am going to order up another guage, tear apart the dash ( oooh help me I created a monster with the dash )

Do you suggest a Mechanical or electrical oil guage?

So your all saying 6qts tops for oil in this beast? before the rebuild I was told 8... but then again, THATs guy sold the car to me (who knew what he was getting rid of).

... and order a dipstick from al.

Okies... I think I got it...

What about the thickness of the oil?

Before the rebuild I ran 20-50... is that what I should be running again?




So I guess my question before I can move any further is...

Mechanical or Electrical Guage for the oil.

I'd like to order it within a day or so, so I quick responed would be well loved! :oops:

[cadfor]

I think you said you already had a mechanical gage but it was bad, You can just replace it and or put a tee in the oil line and also install a sender for an electric gage and run both. I'd still think about checking the pick up clearance beings you said that the oil pan was modified
10/30 or 10/40 should be fine or synthetic

[cutlasschic500]

I'm only hesitant about checking the pick up tube Only because it involves pulling the motor out. :? There is an 1/8 of an inch clearance under the oil pan. In order to drop it the whole motors got to get pulled, and putting it in the first time was a big week fiasco. The car's not at the shop anymore because the bays were filling up with boats. (marine engine shop)

So.. I'm trying to check all my alternatives before I have to pull that motor. And if pulling the motor's the case I'm gonna have to wait probably till fall until I can get a place to do it at. :cry:

As for the guage... I'm just wondering what everyone's preferances are? Which one is more accurate and percise? I feel that this may be a lot of my problem and I want to make sure I choose the right one. (and the fact that i find oil weeping out of the front glass of my guage definately says something might be wrong with it, whaddya think? )


:twisted:
Don't Make Me Start a "Guage" Poll

[smalltruckbigcid]

Autometer or autogauge mechanicals, they run$25~$45. Look for styles here www.autometer.com/default.aspx Hope this helps....
George

[Bill]

If you do pull the pan check the o-ring where the pickup tube mount to the block. If it is not sealing properly it will suck in air and reduce pressure. Hope this helps.

[k10caddy]

I like my autometer guage, it is electrical - which I believe is more accurate but not as reliable... just for reference w/ a melling pump for a 500 I get the following pressures:
cold idle (1200 rpm): 48-53 psi,
hot idle(650 rpm): 20-30 psi
cruising down the road: 50-55 psi hot or cold.
:wink:

[Caddycarlo]

the hope is that you do not have too much clearance .... if the oil pressure is way low the lifters will tic ..... before you take the motor open I would test the pressure with another gauge ..... if it confirms what you are seeing on the guage you have now then there is a problem ..... you can run 20-50 and it should help but when it gets cold again it my be to thick for startup ......also the guage does not have to be in the dash for a test a basic one or borrowed one even under the hood or on the floor will let you check your gauge out

[cadfor]

Christina,
You may not have a problem at all, change your gauge to a new mechanical one (you already have the tubing there) and check the pressure. Hopefully you wount have to pull the motor.
Good luck

[cutlasschic500]

Ok... I got my new dipstick tube today :D I don't need to change anything on it before I put it in... and my original dipstick that came with the car should be fine (I guess I didn't think of buying a dipstick, thought the tube came with it) Yeah... sometimes I can be a dipstick...

Anyways, I'm gonna put that in like it is today. I spent all of yesterday working in the rain to fix a few problems with the car, allong with the Day 3 oil change. I used 10-40... I have aboutl 12 lbs of pressure hot now. I'm feeling 2lbs better.

I'm gonna have to wait til friday to order my guage... that gets it to me by Tuesday. SO... we shall see. In the mean time I'm going to try to find an oil pressure... my father has to have one laying around for the boat somewhere...

I'll keep you guys posted

Thanks!
~ Christina

[~JM~]

My personal feeling is to have an electric gauge inside the passenger compartment.

Mechanical gauge should be outside. If that small feed line were ever to break and spray hot oil inside your car, in your face, on your legs, etc. Could be dangerous.

~JM~

[Caddycarlo]

the plastic lines will fail after awhile it is better to run the copper line ......and you are right it is no fun to have one pee on your shoe been there done that ..........

[cutlasschic500]

Ok.. Well I've tried posting this 3 times last night, BUT for some reason it kept asking me to log in, when I was already logged in. I finally gave up and waited till I got to work.


Yeah I had a plastic line burst on me in my monte (before this cutlass) Luckily it was on the passenger side floor and it hadn't been mounted yet. I was on the highway and lost about 3 qts before I could pull over. I was lucky i didn't get burnt, but what a panic scare that was... and with me everything's a delayed reaction.

... hmmm what's that peculiarly loud hissing noise.... OH! it's oil.... hmm.. and it's on my floor, it shouldn't be doing that. MAYBE I should pull over. :oops:

So I learned my lesson with the plastic line. I go with copper, and I'm especially careful about tight bends and lots of movement. I like the idea of having a mechanical outside and an electric one inside, but my budget doesn't allow it at the moment.

To make the above story even sillyier... A week later my car got egged, my friends little sister threw an egg that bursted on my dashboard... adding egg to the oil mix on the floor. Couple months later... my mom goes to the bakery, gets bread... bag falls over and flour lands on the floor. So my joke for that year (with the collectors just under the floorboards that would melt shoes) I called my car the bread oven... A lil oil, egg and flour. What else do you need :roll:

[cutlasschic500]

Alright... I guess I'll fill you guys in.

Got my hands on one of them nifty professional oil pressure guages. Hooked it up... Ran the car. Crappy pressure. When hot the idle still goes down to 10- psi. So we know now it's not the guage.

Did an oil change, put in 20-50 cause the 10-40 dripped like water.

No difference. That noise that earlier we had though would be some detination noise from bad gas still remains, despite emptying and re-filling the tank with some good 93...

Our thoughts are that I had spun a bearing just after the original break in process, because the noise wasn't heard during the break in.

SO as much as I HATE to do it... but have no choice. The motor gettin pulled this weekends... and we'll figure out what happens next when the time comes. :?

Jus anotha day in the life of my 500...
~ Christina

[Caddycarlo]

sounds like you are on the right track ....... the biggest problem with the caddy oil system is insuring the pickup tube is air tite and well sealed to the block any air sucked into the oil will cause bearing falure shortly after startup ..... most that have built the caddy for a while have had this problem rear its ugly head ........

[Caddycarlo]

sounds like you are on the right track ....... the biggest problem with the caddy oil system is insuring the pickup tube is air tite and well sealed to the block any air sucked into the oil will cause bearing falure shortly after startup ..... most that have built the caddy for a while have had this problem rear its ugly head ........

[novi2krt]

just a couple pennies from my oil prollem episode.

Had OE stock, sat for years 500.. warm.. idle oil pressure would drop down low, 2,000rpm oil pressue would be about 30.

Gave up and opened up the engine when I put it in my other truck chassis I had.

Found main and rod bearings hammered. So ended up doing an entire rebuild, new pistons, rings, bearings, cut crank, the works. Did break in with straight 30, after that went to 10/40. No problems. I idle low rpm, about 650-700 rpm.. and see 25or so psi, any slight engine speed increase and it jumps right up to 50-60. I did end up putting a large engine oil cooler on it since I tend to tow alot and at high speeds. I saw the oil pressure come down to 20psi once when I stopped after a freeway run with the loaded trailer at about 75mph. The engine temp was up at 215 or so and the oil was toasty. Since the cooler, NO drops ever in oil pressure. Sit right at 25psi at idle.

Just muh pennies.

[Stoked_70cadillac]

This may be of some help to you. There is a very easy way of boosting oil pressure without dumping sludge into your oil pan. For starters, if you have any modifications to your motor you need to have an oil pump that is right for the application. For all of us 500cid owners our option is to buy a stock rebuilt oil pump that has had its insides ripped out and replaced with some high performance variance. I myself had bought one of these. But to much demise it still did not produce the oil pressure i needed for my 532 cu. that i needed. Here is how i accomplished my feat. For starters, you will need to remove the oil pump. know that it is out of the vehicle, you are looking for a plug on the oil pump, this will be on the outside of the pump and can only be removed with an allen wrench. beneath the plug is the pressure relief valve. be carefull when you remove the plug, the valve is spring loaded. Once plug is removed there are only to parts to the relief. the spring and a metal cap. measure the length of the spring. know you have two choices. you can either buy a spring that is slightly longer or stretch your current one a little bit. Either way has been successfull for me, i most always buy a new spring, so when i ever may need to return it back to stock(warranty reasons) they never know...not sure if it would really matter anyways. Point being the spring holds the valve closed. the longer the spring and more tension is put on the cap. the more tension on the cap the higher the pressure required to open the relief. thus increasing the oil pressure to what ever pressure you desire. keep one thing in mind there is something called to much pressure. To much and the lifter may not collapse when they are suppose to or stick and could cause minor to major valve train dmg.

as a guide after being warmed up, my engine runs and 45-60 psi under normal driving conditions and jumps to as much as 90 when dropping the hammer with not problems.

another good tip for better lubrication is, if and when you have to pull the crank, have a qualified machine shop chanfer the pick-up holes in the crank. by doing this it, it really helps, trust me :)

i hope this answers the question that started this whole thread